An Interview With Julia Tai
By Joe Nickell, MSO percussionist & program notes author
Joe: Tell me a bit about your earliest memories that relate to how you became a musician and a conductor.
Julia: I joke that I became a musician before I was born. My mother was a high school music teacher and also a music director at a church, so she took me to rehearsals in her womb, and I had probably been to hundreds of rehearsals before I was born. I definitely grew up in a musical family. My parents love music. My dad's not a professional musician, but he loves singing in the choir. My sister plays the cello. I started violin lessons when I was 4. My parents liked us to accompany the choir so we could go to rehearsals instead of hiring a babysitter. As soon as I could play a tune, we were accompanying the choir and playing in orchestras.
So, music is definitely my second language and I grew up with it.
For conducting it actually came later for me and was not very straightforward. I started studying voice when I was 14, and I actually went to the University of Southern California to study vocal arts performance. I was singing in operas at the time, and I started conducting a church choir when I was a sophomore in college to earn some extra income. I started being interested in conducting, but I didn't meet my conducting teacher, Jorge Mester, until I was in my master's program. He was conducting an opera at school that I was singing in, and I approached him to see if I could study more formally with him. He gave me an audition and accepted me into his studio.
The very specific moment that I remember that I thought that this is what I'm going to do for the rest of my life was sitting in the middle of the orchestra. They were playing Strauss, Ein Heldenleben, and the sound, the beauty of the colors of orchestra — I remember tears coming down my cheeks, thinking that I want to do this.
So that started my journey. I later got a doctorate in orchestral conducting from the University of Washington and then started freelancing. That’s where I am now, 10 years later or 15 years later.
I would assume you noticed along the way that at least on orchestral podiums there weren't many women. Why do you personally think that is, and how has that affected you?
I think there are two sides. I think one side is that conducting, for a lot of people — especially from the audience point of view — is kind of an image. It's not like playing violin where you either play the note or you miss it; you don't have a basic line to judge. Musicians know whether they got what they want from a conductor or how well they run the rehearsals, but from an audience perspective I think it's kind of an image. So, especially going from the older era where we have Karajan and Bernstein, those people who are so charismatic, and basically, they are viewed kind of like gods. And whatever they said nobody dared to diverge from it. It's kind of this powerful, authoritative image that people have traditionally felt conductors should be like.
I think for a woman conductor to not fit that bill, that could be part of why it is harder for people to accept.
The other side of it is the education because how the conducting world has worked is that you have a mentor who took you under your wing, and if the conductor of New York Philharmonic decided to help you, then they would give you an opportunity because for conductors it's hard to get that opportunity to stand in front of people before you have experience. So, it's kind of a catch-22. You don't ever get experience because you never stand in front of an orchestra, and then you don't get an orchestra because you don't have experience.
I have been to many international conducting festivals where I was the only female among 20 participants. I get along with men pretty well, but that's kind of a boy club kind of feel that you're trying to fit in because you're the only woman. You do feel a little bit on the outside a lot of the time. So, those are kind of the things that you're working with and have to overcome as a woman conductor.
But I think, like you said, things are changing. There are more and more opportunities for women. So, it's good that I think that image is change what conductors should look like, and at the same time the whole culture is changing.
I think even this day in age, the old school is where the conductor has absolute authority. I think kind of the new way, I always feel like conducting is a collaboration, not a dictatorship. I hope to inspire the musicians or put out this road map of how we achieve the vision of how this piece should sound like. Because I'm also always waiting for the musicians to inspire me by their playing, their phrasing, their tone. I think it should be a two-way street. Everybody contributes to making this orchestra and this performance a success, not just the conductor controlling everything. That changes the model of how orchestra conductors and orchestral musicians work.
I like that. And definitely you see more diversity on the podium, you see more diversity in orchestras. Maybe not as much in audiences though these days. In particular, it seems like orchestras continue to struggle to really connect with a broad demographic of people, both in terms of age and also socioeconomic level. Why do you think that is? What can be done about that do you think?
I think definitely the culture is changing around us, and so the culture of a symphony orchestra also has to change. I think it used to be orchestras are kind of just on this shrine in the concert hall. And this idea that people should come to us because it's a very special event. Back in the day they wear a tuxedo or something. There's a kind of formality that's associated with the symphony; and a lot of the younger generation, young adults, they maybe are not attracted to that formality.
I think times have changed, and symphonies shouldn't sit in their concert hall waiting for people to come to them. It's the other way around, really. That they need to go out and reach people. Orchestras are starting to do this around the country. So things like, you play in different venues than just the concert hall. Or you have smaller events in coffee shops and bars. Those are all ways to reach out to the audience.
I think it's first understanding what your audience likes and who they are and creating events that tailor to what they're attracted to doing. It's not that we are changing how we play music, the music itself is still the same, and it's still great; we're just changing how we present it. So, I think definitely getting to know your audience is important to help reach those people who are not already your core supporters.
Also, I think a lot of people, even people who've never been to a symphony concert, they have exposure to symphonic music, they just don't know it. A lot of the video games have fabulous music. The movies too. I think they have that symphonic sound in their ears. They've heard it, they appreciate it, even liked it maybe, they just didn't know how to appreciate it. So, a lot of times you break away all the formality or what they perceive what that concert is like, then maybe when they get to the music itself, they would really like it.
Ultimately, to reach a more diverse audience you have to have diverse offerings of different type of events and music. You can't please everybody with one type of concert, so you create many different types and people will find what they like.
Talk to me about your programming philosophy. What inspired the program for this concert, and then how would you see yourself approaching a whole season with the orchestra?
I always look for ways to mix things up, the new and the old, and create a season or concert that has diversity. So, for example, with this concert I set out to do all American music. Of course Bernstein, Gershwin we know really well. These giants who we admire for their amazing, beautiful music. But then who else is out there that we've never heard of, who would add a different element?
That’s how I came to Amy Beach. I have played her chamber music in the past, and she wrote beautiful songs as well. She also wrote a couple of symphonies, and her most famous one is the “Gaelic” Symphony. It was premiered by the Boston Symphony in 1896, and she was the first female composer that gained public attention. She was a child prodigy, a pianist, and she wrote this beautiful, luscious music. You could hear those Wagnerian chords, and really bold and luscious harmonies. The beautiful melody, she was answering a call from Dvořák saying, that Americans have to find the music that is distinctly their own, and so she went back to her Celtic roots and found a lot of great material that she incorporated into her symphony. It’s just a host of beautiful melodies that she was able to transform and connect from one to the other.
It's a beautiful piece, and I don't know why it's not in the mainstream of famous symphonies. Even the Seattle Symphony — I was talking to one of the players the other day and he said they’ve never done this symphony that he knows of. And yet this was such a formative part of American music. It's part of a generation of Americans writing in this Romantic language that kind of was dominating Europe at the time.
So that’s something I love to do is just make new discoveries and bring them to audiences. When you mix new things with familiar things, you can hear the familiar things with fresh ears. So, that's always been a part of my philosophy. I don't like concerts where the music is all from the same era, or all from the same family of musical language.
In terms of a whole season, I have always thought about how much diversity I could put in a season. Diversity from different periods. From Baroque, Classical, Romantic to Contemporary; women and men composers; composers of different backgrounds and ethnicity. How can I create a season that is interesting?
I often think of music the way you think of food. You can love Italian food, but you may not want pasta every day for the rest of your life. So you have Italian food one night, and you have Chinese food the other night, you have French food or Mexican food. So, for a whole season of concerts, what flavors can you offer that is fresh to the audience while also making sure you give them a taste of their favorite things. People who love living composers and love talking to them, they find something in the season.
People who are Romantic music fans or Baroque music fans, they have something in the season for them. That is always what I'm thinking of when I program. How do I mix all these different things up and create a wonderful dish that everybody will like.
Let's talk a little bit about your role off of the podium in the community and with your organization. How do you view that in a small community like this?
What a conductor does off the podium is, in some ways, much more important than what the conductor does on the podium. The rehearsals and the concerts are only really 20 percent of the job. The other 80 percent is going out in the community to develop relationships — personal, organizational — and to really listen to the people about what they like, what they want, what they need. When we were going to start an outreach program at my chamber orchestra here in Seattle, I went to a lot of schools and talked to the music teacher. I asked them questions about what kind of programs are already offered and what can we do that they don't have and wish you had. That kind of information and relationship is so important. As a conductor, I gain programming ideas by talking to people, and what kind of concerts they fancy.
Every community is different, and the most important job for the conductor is really to go out there and talk to people to understand the community and how the symphony can be a part of it.
As far as working with musicians in an orchestra like the MSO, how do you go about working with and getting the best out of musicians who aren't generally doing this as their primary form of living?
I have worked with orchestras of all different levels, from college orchestras to professional orchestras. In Seattle there are 20-plus community orchestras. I'm always so amazed at how people outside of their full-time job find the energy and the interest to really practice hard and sound good. A lot of my chamber orchestra, Philharmonia Northwest, is made up of community members — lawyers and engineers and such. But they want to keep that level of playing because that's where they find enjoyment. I'm always amazed at how dedicated people are working 40, or some lawyers, 60-hour weeks, and then they find the time to practice, and show up to rehearsals, and play those fantastic concerts.
I think the important thing for community orchestras, more than the professional orchestra, is that everybody comes for one mission and that is the enjoyment of music. Yes, they work very hard, but they really enjoy the process and being able to deliver a very polished product. They feel like they could create something that's enjoyable and meaningful for the community. And I think that is an important mission, and if everybody has that in mind, then it's easy. Everybody has the same goals and visions, and we can come together so much easier.
With the community orchestra, what's amazing is that they come because they want to. Everybody's in the orchestra because they want to. They're not being forced to. Everybody there wants to make a difference.
Well I want to wrap this up, but I see that I left out one of the most important questions that of course everybody in the audience is going to be scanning through this interview to see. What is your favorite music and/or composers of all time?
Oh, it's so hard to pick a favorite! But I've always loved Gustav Mahler because his music is so large in scale. Those masterpieces that when you listen to them, you’re listening to a piece that is bigger than life, bigger than time. And Mahler's Sixth Symphony for sure. I think there was some difficult times in my life, and to hear Mahler’s Sixth it's like: This is why we're doing this. It's so powerful. Every time, if I feel like I'm not quite sure why I do what I do, I'll go back to that piece and be reminded: This is why.
Of course, I love many different composers and genres as well, but that piece has a very special place.